Defending Libertarianism: a conversation with Douglas Den Uyl

How do libertarianism, classical liberalism, and liberalism (as in the American “liberal vs conservative” contrast) differ, and where do they overlap?  Both libertarianism and classical liberalism are under attack today, from both the Left and the Right; what are those critiques, and how might they be answered?  Douglas Den Uyl and his co-author Douglas Rasmussen have worked out a fascinating defense of libertarianism which is grounded in a perfectionist ethics inspired by Aristotle’s theories of happiness and human nature.   What is it, and what questions does it raise? 

In this episode, Doug and I discuss these questions, as well as Doug’s views about the relevance of such thinkers as Spinoza, Adam Smith, and others for a viable contemporary political philosophy.

In response to my concluding invitation to share with the audience several texts or works of art or performances (or combinations of the above) that he thinks are particularly interesting, Doug mentions C. S. Lewis’ book Four Loves, friendship in the films of John Ford and Charlie Kaufmann, and the movie “Cinema Paradiso.” 

For more information about Douglas Den Uyl, please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Den_Uyl

This conversation with Douglas Den Uyl was recorded on January 2, 2026, and has been edited.

Show notes: 

[1] In the course of this conversation, Doug refers to his 2023 two-part essay on Adam Smith.  The first concerns Smith’s identification of the imagination’s possible “obsession with symmetry, order, perfection, or fittingness.”  This possible obsession is, for Smith, a powerful counterweight to self-interest (a notion with which Smith is so often associated).  See https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/paradigm-lock

The second essay concerns taking Smith’s awareness of the power of the imagination and showing how we sometimes can lock what that power imagines into influencing how we see and interpret other events taking place around us. Doug calls this phenomenon “paradigm lock.”  He then uses the concept to identify “pathologies morality may be subject to, and how can we avoid becoming dangerously locked in a moralistic paradigm.”  Those pathologies lead to social divisiveness.  See https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/den-uyl-paradign-lock-2

[2] Doug and I both refer to his “Artificial Sociality,” an essay in which he explores the question as to whether one can be friends with a robot.  Doug draws on Adam Smith in setting out his analysis.  Please see https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/denuyl-artificial-sociality

[3] In the course of the conversation, Doug refers to Lewis S. Feuer’s Spinoza and the Rise of Liberalism (Boston, 1964), as well as to Jonathan Israel’s work (Doug has in mind Israel’s Radical Enlightenment: Philosophy and the Making of Modernity 1650-1750 (Oxford University Pres, 2001) and Spinoza, Life and Legacy (Oxford University Press, 2023)).  Doug refers as well to Friedrich Hayek, and has in mind Hayek’s The Constitution of Liberty (University of Chicago Press, 1992).  Doug also mentions his own books Power, State, and Freedom (Van Gorcum, 1983) and The Virtue of Prudence (Peter Lang, 1991), as well as The Philosophic Thought of Ayn Rand, edited by Douglas J. Den Uyl and Douglas B. Rasmussen (University of Illinois Press, 1984).

A number of the works alluded to in the conversation will be found on Doug’s Wikipedia page (for the link, please see above).

[4] I refer to being a philosopher in “the agora,” meaning, in the public gathering place(s) or public space.

[5] I refer to Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations book III (ch. II), where Smith says “The pride of man makes him love to domineer, and nothing mortifies him so much as to be obliged to condescend to persuade his inferiors.  Wherever the law allows it, and the nature of the work can afford it, therefore, he will generally prefer the service of slaves to that of freemen” (WN III.ii.10; in the preceding paragraph, Smith tells us that work done by slaves is more expensive (and so less economical) than that done by free persons). 

I also refer to Wealth of Nations book V, Part III, where Smith outlines the functions of the state, one being the duty of “erecting and maintaining those publick institutions and those publick works, which, though they may be in the highest degree advantageous to a great society, are, however, of such a nature, that the profit could never repay the expence to any individual or small number of individuals, and which it, therefore, cannot be expected that any individual or small number of individuals should erect or maintain” (WN V.i.c.1; similarly, see IV.ix.51, which is at the very end of WN book IV; in the conversation with Doug, I mention interstate highways as a modern example of “publick works”). 

These quotations are from the two-volume edition of WN edited by R. H. Campbell, A. S. Skinner, and W. B. Todd (Oxford University Press, 1976; rpt. Liberty Press/Liberty Classics (an imprint of Liberty Fund), 1981). 

[6] I refer to Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s discussion of “civil religion” (and to his underlining the importance of citizens being willing to sacrifice their lives for the common good).  I had in mind his Of the Social Contract, book IV, ch. 8 (titled “Of Civil Religion”).  That chapter, and the “domineer” passage in Smith mentioned in note [5] above, are discussed in my Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Adam Smith: a Philosophical Encounter (Routledge, 2018).

The snippets of flamenco you hear throughout this podcast’s episodes are inspired by, and draw on, not only traditional tropes of the art form but in particular the work of Diego del Gastor (my teacher), Paco de Lucia (everyone’s teacher in modern flamenco), and Luciano Ghosn.

I am grateful to Douglas Den Uyl for his help with this episode, including the short description thereof, the title, and the show notes.  I also wish to thank David Roochnik.  The photograph that serves as the image for this episode was taken in 2024 by Douglas Den Uyl, and is used here with his permission.  The building pictured is the Industrial National Bank Building (Providence, Rhode Island).

For more information about where I am coming from in this podcast as a whole, as well as the General Acknowledgments and the Dedication, please see “Philosophy on the Way” at https://griswoldphilosophy.podbean.com/

 

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